All Slavic: "Rules" of colloquial speech

Karton Realista

Senior Member
Polish - Poland
Hi, dear all
I've noticed that there are actually some rules in colloquial declination of words, like in:
Iść (to go)
Sing.
1. Ja ide (correct ja idę)
2. Ty idziesz
3. On idzie
Plur.
1. My idziem (correct my idziemy)
2. Wy idzieta (correct wy idziecie)
3. Oni ido, ony ido (c. oni idą, one idą)
The -ta and -m endings are the most distinct.
(ignore my, wy, ja, etc., it is usually not used near verbs in Polish, I put it for ilustration).
Ł after a consonant is often ommited, like zszedł - zszed, zmiótł - zmiet, zgniótł - zgniet, przyszedł - przyszed. Ó usually goes back to e, a, o. In verbs o goes to e, podniosła - podniesła.
Trz and other consonant clusters are reduced - trzcina, czcina ; strzałka - szczałka.

Is something like that (the regularity of extremely colloquial speech) present in your language?
 
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  • rushalaim

    Senior Member
    русский
    Идти (инф.)
    (ед.ч.) 1. иду; 2. идёшь; 3. идёт;
    (мн.ч.) 1. идём; 2. идёте; 3. идут;
     
    Idziem is the original form of the first person of the Plural, cp. the Old Church Slavonic идемъ/jьdemъ. Idziemy is usually regarded as influenced by my after the pattern found in the first person of the Dual: вѣ идевѣ/ jьde : мы идемъ/my jьdemъmy idemy.

    Idzieta
    is the former second person of the Dual, cp. the Old Church Slavonic идета/jьdeta.
     

    Karton Realista

    Senior Member
    Polish - Poland
    Idziem is the original form of the first person of the Plural, cp. the Old Church Slavonic идемъ/jьdemъ. Idziemy is usually regarded as influenced by my after the pattern found in the first person of the Dual: вѣ идевѣ/ jьde : мы идемъ/my jьdemъmy idemy.

    Idzieta
    is the former second person of the Dual, cp. the Old Church Slavonic идета/jьdeta.
    It's interesting to know that what nowadays would be considered extremely incorrect is actually earlier than its correct counterparts.
    Thanks for info.
     

    Enquiring Mind

    Senior Member
    English - the Queen's
    Everyday spoken non-standard colloquial (call it what you like!) Czech (obecná čeština) can have all kinds of modifications to noun, pronoun and adjective declensions, and to verb conjugations which differ significantly from their standard/written (spisovná) form. Some of these modifications are more regional or "folksy" than others. Karel Tahal produced a 36-page supplement (in Czech) to his excellent Czech grammar which you can read here (pdf file, pp 260-296). Here's one of the examples he gives:
    (Standard) On prý těmi novými klíči stále nemohl odemknout žádné zásuvky.
    (Very colloquial) Von prej těma novejma klíčema furt nemoh vodemknout žádný šuplíky.
    Apparently he still couldn't unlock any of the drawers with those new keys.

    Some of these colloquial features are analogous to the ones you described in Polish, such as omitting verb endings (but not for all conjugation types): půjdem for půjdeme, budem for budeme, nemoh for nemohl, neřek for neřekl, etc.
     

    Karton Realista

    Senior Member
    Polish - Poland
    Von prej těma novejma klíčema furt nemoh vodemknout žádný šuplíky.
    I see some analogies with Polish and Slovak: nowymi kluczami, novými kľúčami would be used here. Maybe it's waiting to have "agreeing" ends for adjective and noun.

    Thanks for the pdf, it's definitely interesting, although difficult to read.
     

    bragpipes

    Senior Member
    English - USA
    So it looks like colloquial Polish is following a similar trajectory as other Slavic languages - the loss of the nasal vowels and loss of final l (in this case ł) i.e. (Russian) on umer, not umrl.

    Colloquial BCS:

    mogao > mogo
    crtao > crto
    zabrinuo > zabrino
    gledao > gledo
    rekao > reko

    Mojemu/mojega are reduced to moga/mome and can go one step further to mog/mom.

    There's also the subjunctive (ja bih, on bi, mi bismo, vi biste) being "reduced" to bi for all.

    There's also things like četri (from četiri) which I believe is not uncommon in other Slavic languages.

    The only conjugations I can think of that differ from the standard are uznem from uzeti (instead of uzmem) but I feel that that's a reinterpretation of the verb as uznuti (see zvati and zovnuti > zovem and zovnem).
     
    Spoken Russian tends to drop j and d in and before the unstressed endings while fronting e>i or ė, a>ä, u>ü, e. g. читаю>читаü, читает>читаит, будет>буит, видит>виит, новая>новаä, новое>новаė, новую>новуü, also пятьдесят>пиисят. That's actually not substandard: one may speak this way even in the less careful formal style. Other consonants may disappear as well: только>токо, смотреть>смореть. There are also some regional variations, e. g. Muscovites often develop syllabic n, m and l, e. g. внимательный>вниматьнный (I don't notice this in Saint Petersburg).

    Четыре
    is always pronounced with three syllables here.
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    In Slovene, I can think of reducing the -ti of the infinitive to -t (delati > delat, misliti > mislit); simplifying the -l participle in masculine gender (delal [delaw > delu], mislil [misliw > mislu]), and a lot of dropping of sounds in numbers.

    In my speech, I use the following: dvajset (20) > [d'vɛjst], trideset (30) > [t'riəsət], štirideset (40) > [š'tərəsət], petdeset (50) > ['peəsət], šestdeset (60) > ['šeəsət], sedemdeset (70) > ['seә̃sət], osemdeset (80) > ['osә̃sət], devetdeset (90) > [dɛ'veəsət]. Also in combinations, so štiriinštirideset (44) sounds like [štərənš'tərəsət] :D

    A feature of colloquial speech is also pronouncing i as closed e before r (mir [mer], štiri (4) > [šter]).
     

    Милан

    Senior Member
    Serbian (Србија)
    Serbian
    20 (dvadeset) becomes dvajs
    30 (trideset) trijs

    slanina becomes slanna (long n), meni se čini - meščini
    We drop H so hleb is leb, hladno - ladno, Hrvatska - Rvatska, hajde and ajde becomes aj, ajd or ae.
    'imam muvu u uhu' ---> 'imam muu u uu' ;)

    reći ću becomes reću, ići ći - iću, peći ću - peću and so on.

    Hoćeš li becomes oli.
    Hoćeš još - šjoš (hoćeš is usually shortened to oš).

    In Vojvodina: voleti
    1. (sing) Ja volem (standard volim)
    3. (plural)Oni volu (standard vole)
     

    Daniel.N

    Member
    Croatian
    We drop H so hleb is leb, hladno - ladno, Hrvatska - Rvatska, hajde and ajde becomes aj, ajd or ae.
    'imam muvu u uhu' ---> 'imam muu u uu' ;)

    reći ću becomes reću, ići ći - iću, peći ću - peću and so on.

    This is actually a local speech, dialect, not colloquial language.

    Mojemu/mojega are reduced to moga/mome and can go one step further to mog/mom.

    As far as I can tell, moga and mog are perfectly acceptable in the standard language, they are not colloquial.
     

    Encolpius

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Plur.
    1. My idziem (correct my idziemy)
    2. Wy idzieta (correct wy idziecie)
    3. Oni ido, ony ido (c. oni idą, one idą)

    Interesting you can drop -y and say my idziem just like Czechs, but it is not possible in Slovak (idem I go, ideme we go)
    wy idzieta sounds interesting, is that not an old dual form?
     

    marco_2

    Senior Member
    Polish
    It used to be dual, but in many Polish dialects (especially in central Poland) they replaced plural forms, so people started to say my idziewa, wy idzieta. These endings were also used in imperative (chodźwa! instead of chodźmy! = Let's go! and chodźta! instead of chodźcie! = Come here (plural)). It's interesting to note that in these dialects people used regular plural when they respectfully addressed elderly people, so Ludzie, co robita? = What are you doing, guys? but: Matko, co robicie? = What are you doing, mother?
     

    Panceltic

    Senior Member
    Slovenščina
    Very very interesting! These forms are identical with the dual in Slovene. So you're saying that in these dialects, the old dual forms have completely replaced the plural?
     

    Karton Realista

    Senior Member
    Polish - Poland
    Very very interesting! These forms are identical with the dual in Slovene. So you're saying that in these dialects, the old dual forms have completely replaced the plural?
    Those dialects are considered in areas that they're spoken in "colloquial language", so people don't think of those as something you would say to a random "mister" on the street, your boss, your client and so forth.

    On the other side, some dual relics among nouns are considered as more elegant than their regular counterparts: oczyma vs. oczami, rękoma vs. rękami.
     
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    marco_2

    Senior Member
    Polish
    Very very interesting! These forms are identical with the dual in Slovene. So you're saying that in these dialects, the old dual forms have completely replaced the plural?

    I guess so. I haven't been to central Poland for a long time but dialects are generally dying out and even there, as Karton Realista wrote, people consider these forms as bumpkinish and don't use them when addressing strange people. My headteacher uses them jokingly though.
     
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