Pronunciation of halászcsárda

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osemnais

Senior Member
Bulgarian
I'm interested to know how the sibilant cluster is pronounced. According to forvo it is pronounced as if it was two separate words. According to Wikipedia however, there is an assimilation taking place, changing szcs to scs. What is the case? Does the wiki article hold water? If it does, how widespread is it? Thanks in advance.
 
  • franknagy

    Senior Member
    It is pronounced as
    Halász+csárda. (English holahs+ charda.)
    The collision of "sz" and "cs" does not cause melting of consonants.
    I disagree with the paragraph of wihi artice:
    • If one of the two adjacent sibilants is an affricate, the first one changes its place of articulation, e.g. malacság [mɒlɒtʃːaːɡ], halászcsárda [hɒlaːʃtʃaːrdɒ] 'Hungarian fish restaurant'. Sibilant affricate-fricative sequences like /tʃʃ/ are pronounced the same as geminate affricate [tʃː] during normal speech.
    The malacság is pronunced with separate c and s.

    However:
    Igazság and gazság are pronounced as igasság and gasság, respectively.
     

    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    I tried it on myself first and it is true that I couldn't hear it, either (although I could "feel" that there was some kind of change...).
    I also tried to pronounce "haláscsárda" and it didn't sound right. (When you pronounce a word in itself, you can't help pronouncing it as close to its written form as possible, so I suppose it was to be expected.)

    However, "a foreign ear" (in the family) didn't have any problem identifying the "non (Hungarian) sz"-sound to be an (English) "sh".
     
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    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Some "combinations" of pronunciation are simply physically impossible. In other words, even if one is convinced about what one has pronounced, exact measurements may give different real results.

    My personal opinion:

    1) If halászcsárda is pronounced without any hiatus or pause between halász and csárda, then there is no difference between the pronunciation of halászcsárda and haláscsárda (in this sense the Wikipedia is right).

    2) If there is a small pause in between, then the assimilation doesn't take place. I think this is the case of the pronunciation given by Forvo (the two words are pronounced quite separetely).

    I think in the common spoken language, spontaneously the situation 1) is more typical.
     
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    franknagy

    Senior Member
    1) If halászcsárda is pronounced without any hiatus or pause between halász and csárda, then there is no difference between the pronunciation of halászcsárda and haláscsárda (in this sense the Wikipedia is right).
    Erre mondják, hogy csak a jeles tanulók hallják.
     

    gorilla

    Member
    Hungarian - Hungary
    It's between the two extremes. Also depends on speed and formality. If you're talking fast with friends, you may say it more like haláscsárda (although not totally), but there is always a bit of interaction between the sz and the cs.
     
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