Persian: yours

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Ali Smith

Senior Member
Urdu - Pakistan
سلام!

I ran into a friend of mine today and asked him سبیل تان کجاست؟ (Where is your mustache?)
Actually, he had just shaved his mustache, and by coincidence I had done the same a day earlier. I think he said ھم آن جائی رفتہ است کہ سبیل تان رفتہ است (It's gone to the same place where your mustache has gone.)

Would it have been possible for him to say "It's gone to the same place where yours has gone."?

خیلی ممنونم!
 
  • mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    Hi, Ali Smith. In Persian there are no possessive pronouns such as the English yours, hers, theirs, etc.

    There are, however, ways to avoid repeating the noun in the situation you cite and other similar instances. One way is to drop the noun altogether without introducing any words that indicate possession, as in the second and third examples below.

    Examples:

    You have shaved off your moustache, as I have mine.
    تو سبیلِ خودت را تراشیدی و من هم مالِ خودم را تراشیدم.
    ‌‌
    Her love for music was far greater than this woman’s is.
    عشقِ او نسبت به موسیقی به مراتب بیش‌تر از این زن بود.

    Your blood is not bluer than ours.
    خونِ شما از ما رنگین‌تر نیست.

    Give to Ali his share, and to Maryam, hers.
    سهمِ علی را به علی بدهید و از آنِ مریم را به مریم.
     
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    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    ھم آن جائی رفتہ است کہ سبیل تان رفتہ است
    This sounds a little odd as it is, in mainstream Persian the response in that exchange will be:
    هم آن جایی رفته است که سببل شما رفته است

    Or simpler:
    هم آن جایی که سببل شما رفته است
    The same place your moustache gas gone.
     

    Ali Smith

    Senior Member
    Urdu - Pakistan
    But aren't the attached pronouns more common than detached pronouns in ordinary Persian?
    For example, کتابت is more common than کتابِ تو. Similarly, پدرش is more common than پدرِ او. The same goes for خانہ ام and خانۂ من.
    I would expect هم آن جایی رفته است که سببل تان رفته است to be the normal way of saying it these days. Your version, namely هم آن جایی رفته است که سببل شما رفته است, would be more formal, wouldn't it?
     

    mannoushka

    Senior Member
    Iran/Persian
    In my view the point about attached pronouns being more common cannot be disputed, since achieving brevity is almost always one of the goals in communication.

    However, with nuanced utterances, where emphasis, either on the person or on the noun, is the intention, the natural tendency is to emphasize the person by bringing in the detached form of the pronoun, but opt for a short, attached pronoun when the emphasis is on the noun, whatever it may be.

    Going back to the example, the speaker’s words are a reminder that the other guy’s moustache has also been shaved off, with the emphasis on the other guy, and so it is reasonable to expect to hear or see a detached pronoun in place.
     

    PersoLatin

    Senior Member
    UK
    Persian - Iran
    namely هم آن جایی رفته است که سببل شما رفته است, would be more formal, wouldn't it?
    This is not about formality, as has been explained by mannoushka, the detached pronoun سیبیل شما (also it’s informal version سیبیل تو,) is used for emphasis and your example will require it to be that way.

    Another point is that, this type of exchange happens between familiar parties, so informal or polite informal is the correct register.

    There’s a difference between
    دفترم کجاست؟ and دفتر من کجاست؟
     
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