Except & alongside

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ThomasK

Senior Member
Belgium, Dutch
I started up a thread long ago about possible links between "except" (apart from), "without" and ..., but can I now ask for your word(s) for "except" and "alongside", which comes close, I think, at least pragmatically...

(a) Everyone is here, except for James, OR Except for James, everyone is here. [I hope that is correct]
(b) Alongside the action plan for Africa, there is apparently a new plan by the FAO.

We have
- (a) uitgezonderd (singled out, based on "zonder", which seems to mean '"apart")
- (a, b) behalve (literally meaning "be-side(s)"
- (b) naast: lit. next to, so besides
 
  • Armas

    Senior Member
    Finnish
    Finnish:
    (a, b) paitsi, apparently from pa- + -itse, where pa- is unknown, possibly from the same root as paeta (to flee from). -itse means "by, through, via".
    (b) ohella lit. "on/at the side/flank"
     

    Penyafort

    Senior Member
    Catalan (Catalonia), Spanish (Spain)
    In Catalan, in the case of "except (for)":

    tret de X [literally, X removed/taken off]​
    llevat (de) X [same as above]​
    fora de X [literally, outside X] -- It can also have the literal meaning of 'outside X'​
    a excepció de X [with exception of X]​
    excepte X [except X]​
    salvat X [saved X] -- Uncommon​

    So nothing to do with "alongside", which in Catalan is:

    (rather literal meaning of alongside)
    al costat de X [literally, by the side of X]​
    a la vora de X [by the edge of X]​
    a tocar de X [by the touch of X]​
    (rather abstract meaning of alongside)
    juntament amb X [altogether with X]​
    al mateix temps que X [at the same time than X]​
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    @Penyafort: seems quite clear then, thanks.

    My main question is: could there be a [for example spatial] rationale for the use of something like "alongside, next to" as a near synonym of both "apart from" and "exception"? Finnish might contain a hint if this "pa" could mean something like "apart from"; the side seems already present. However, no indication in Spanish or Catalan, I guess.

    Just wondering about French now:
    (a) à l'exception de, sauf; I suppose…
    (b) à côté de, outre de (< ul-tre, ultra, plus loin, je suppose), en plus de
    But then: could "side" somehow be linked with "moreover", "in addition"? In German a Beilage is something extra, added to the main course. Like the English side dish?

    I think I can safely say that (a) and (b) have a similar meaning, but I am simply amazed at the different root words: apart, except (separating, so it seems) and then side, or more (adding)….
     
    Greek:

    (a) «Εκτός από» [ekˈtɔs aˈpɔ] --> lit. except from.
    -MoGr adv. «εκτός» [ekˈtɔs] --> except, outside < Classical preposition & adverb «ἐκτός» ĕktós.
    -MoGr prep. «από» [aˈpɔ] --> from, at, by, since, out of < Classical preposition «ἀπό» ăpó.

    (b1) «Συγχρόνως» [siŋˈxrɔ.nɔs] (adv.) --> concurrently, synchronously, alonɡside, a MoGr construction (1845) < Classical adj. «σύγχρονος» súnkʰrŏnŏs --> contemporaneous < Classical preposition and prefix «σύν» sún + Classical masc. noun «χρόνος» kʰrónŏs.

    (b2) «Παράλληλα» [paˈɾa.li.la] (adv.) --> parallelly, meanwhile, alongside, in tandem < Classical adverbial phrase «παρ' ἀλλήλους» păr' ăllḗlous (idem) < Classical preposition «παρά» părắ + Classical pronoun «ἀλλήλων» ăllḗlōn.

    I think b2 fits better in your example.
     

    ThomasK

    Senior Member
    Belgium, Dutch
    So you are implying that they are not really exchangeable. Yet, somehow the three might be possible perhaps. That is the main point for me: how come these two different meanings seem to express the same whereas they seem so different semantically speaking...

    Maybe apart and along/ parallel imply some distance: a passer-by generally holds some distance in pasSing. In Dutch he is walking past, hij wandelt voorbij.

    I suddenly think: I suppose "in addition to" would work here too, but maybe there is only "in addition". Any (near) native speaker around?
     
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