Does Filipino have the ordinary SV(O/C) constructions?

kimko_379

New Member
Japanese
1. I hear that Filipino word orders are usually Predicates+Subjects. But are there also Subjects/Topics+Predicates word orders in the language?

2. Are there in Filipino
Topicalizations like: John, she telephoned/visited.
Left dislocations like: John, she TELEPHONED him, not visited him.
when the subjects are presuppositions? The above "John"s are so-called semantic/psychological subjects and presuppositions. The question 1. includes such subjects.

3. Chinese has, e.g.:
Shin lai le. = The letter has come.
Lai shin le. = A letter has come. Ecco una lettera!
Is there the same or similar presupposition/focus subjects realization rule in Filipino too?
 
  • DotterKat

    Moderator
    English (American)
    1. I hear that Filipino word orders are usually Predicates+Subjects. But are there also Subjects/Topics+Predicates word orders in the language?
    Yes.
    In English the construction is normally S-V-O, with an exception for interrogatives when V precedes S.
    In Tagalog, V can come before or after S in ordinary construction.
    The critical difference is the use of verbal focus in Tagalog. Thus, equivalencies will never be exact and an attempt at direct translation will result in unconventional sentences in both directions.

    Ikaw ay nagtanong.:tick: You asked.:tick:
    Nagtanong ka. :tick: "Asked, you did." :thumbsdown:

    Kinuha mo ito.:tick: "Got this, you did.":thumbsdown:
    Ito ay kinuha mo. :tick: "This you got." :thumbsdown:
    "Ikaw ay kumuha nito." :thumbsdown: You got this.:tick:


    2. Are there in Filipino
    Topicalizations like: John, she telephoned/visited.
    Left dislocations like: John, she TELEPHONED him, not visited him.
    when the subjects are presuppositions? The above "John"s are so-called semantic/psychological subjects and presuppositions. The question 1. includes such subjects.
    Yes.
    Again, equivalencies are never exact. From your English text, the Tagalog translation will require the ang / si markers. Ang marks the focus of a sentence with the exception of proper nouns in which case si is used.

    John, she telephoned. Si John, tinawagan niya.
    John, she telephoned him, not visited him. Si John ay kaniyang tinawagan at hindi pinuntahan.

    3. Chinese has, e.g.:
    Shin lai le. = The letter has come.
    Lai shin le. = A letter has come. Ecco una lettera!
    Is there the same or similar presupposition/focus subjects realization rule in Filipino too?
    Yes.
    Once more, the ang marker will be needed for your first sentence which refers to a specific letter that has arrived. In the second sentence in which a non-specific letter arrived, the may indefinite phrase construction is needed.

    Ang sulat ay dumating. The letter has come.
    May sulat na dumating. A letter has come.
     

    kimko_379

    New Member
    Japanese
    Thank you so much for your kind answer!

    But haven't you mistaken "presuppositions/focuses" for "definite/indefinite"?: "Lai shin le./The letter has come." show that "The presupposed/afore-mentioned letter has come." unless "THE letter" gets a special prominence/stress, meaning "It is THE letter that has come." If that is true, doesn't "ang" reveal presupposition-ness on the contrary?: "Ako ang nag-bigay ng laruan kay Rey." (I, not other persons, gave Rey the toy. It is me that gave Rey the toy.) shows that "Someone gave Ray the toy." is presupposed, and the predicate gets "ang," isn't that correct? But I was wondering if you would possibly demonstrate examples of the above-mentioned extraordinary stress/prominence on "ang"-phrases.

    And judging from the Japanese translations of Tagalog sentences using "wa"/"ga" (presupposition/focus markers),
    "si" seems to be used in both cases of presupposition and focus subjects or nominatives and mean only proper-noun nominative-ness, but am I wrong?
     

    DotterKat

    Moderator
    English (American)
    Thank you so much for your kind answer!
    But haven't you mistaken "presuppositions/focuses" for "definite/indefinite"?: "Lai shin le./The letter has come." show that "The presupposed/afore-mentioned letter has come." unless "THE letter" gets a special prominence/stress, meaning "It is THE letter that has come." If that is true, doesn't "ang" reveal presupposition-ness on the contrary?: "Ako ang nag-bigay ng laruan kay Rey." (I, not other persons, gave Rey the toy. It is me that gave Rey the toy.) shows that "Someone gave Ray the toy." is presupposed, and the predicate gets "ang," isn't that correct? But I was wondering if you would possibly demonstrate examples of the above-mentioned extraordinary stress/prominence on "ang"-phrases.
    Ang does mark the focus of the sentence and thus will indicate the presupposed subject as indicated in previous lines of text that are not revealed.
    This will remain true even if you invert the sentence Ako ang nagbigay ng laruan = Ang nagbigay ng laruan ay ako.

    And judging from the Japanese translations of Tagalog sentences using "wa"/"ga" (presupposition/focus markers),
    "si" seems to be used in both cases of presupposition and focus subjects or nominatives and mean only proper-noun nominative-ness, but am I wrong?
    Yes, presupposed or otherwise, si points to a proper noun as the focus while ang points to a common noun as the focus.
     

    wynbennet

    New Member
    US English - California
    If I'm not mistaken, you are pertaining to the rules and uses of "simuno" and "panaguri" as part of the sentence, right?
     

    kimko_379

    New Member
    Japanese
    If I'm not mistaken, you are pertaining to the rules and uses of "simuno" and "panaguri" as part of the sentence, right?
    I regret to confess that I am a total Tagalog novice/outsider and fail to make head or tail out of your question; excuse me, but what are "simuno" and "panaguri"?
    Anyway, my furthur study has informed me that "ang" shows definite-ness and "si" proper-noun-ness; I just have had to correct my previous postings so; I apologize for the mistakes, everyone.
     
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