Cities with the same name, and other city-related matters

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Senior Member
Elsass-Lothringen[/QUOTE said:
Let me continue this historical off-topic remark.
My favorite history teacher explained that Charlemagne divided his empire among his 3 grandsons.
He gave Lothar the middle stripe among Bald Charles (king of Western France) and German Lewis (king of Germany).
Lothar kicked the bucket earliest. Since the France and Germany kept fighting for Lothar's heritage, for more than 1100 years.
  • funnyhat

    Senior Member
    American English
    Kidding aside, besides Elsass-Lothringen and English Flanders (pale of Calais), definitely bits of France up there annexed from little old Belgium and Luxemburg too. I think most of the rim of nowadays France is annexed land, and quite lately too.

    A good deal of this annexed land (moreso northern France rather than the 'subloirean France') now within France is utterly thanks to British blessing of French imperialism with the endgame of snubbing/thwarting Great Britain's real historical rivals: Dutch and German interests. It's all about the proxy. It's all about the money. Check out Canadian history to see the how much more the British economic knowhow was compared to the Francophones.
    Actually France's northern and eastern expansion mostly occurred in the seventeenth century under Mazarin and Louis XIV. England (it wasn't Britain yet) was allied to France for part of that, but to call it the decisive factor in the French conquests is a stretch.
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    Senior Member
    >Actually France's northern and eastern expansion mostly occurred in the seventeenth century under Mazarin and Louis XIV.
    The tradition of 1100 years of opposition cannot be neglected.
    There was a short period of alliance between France and Germany: when Marie Antoinette Hapsburg was the wife of Louis XVI. This period ended with the Great French Revolution. How will the fragile alliance of F. and G. collapse in the moribund European Union?


    Senior Member
    English - US (Midwest)
    I have thought a bit more about it whar really creates this emotional reaction with me. I think if people said Paris, Ile de France, Rome, Lazio or Munich, Bavaria instead of Paris, France, Rome, Italy or Munich, Germany, it still would sound unfamiliar to me (we usually suffix geographical landmarks rather than state names to avoid ambiguities) but it wouldn't create this irritation. It may be the real issue is that entire nations are equated to one of your states.
    That would require knowing the names of other countries' states - or even that other countries have states.


    Senior Member
    High German/Danish
    Now fine - I don't expect everybody to know every bloody town or region in the world, but is it too much to expect that people pick up a map and just give it some thought if the destination they are buying a ticket for can really be the one they really want to go to.

    I mean sometimes it is not even of any use asking the ticket agent: Once I was buying a ticket from Hamburg to Nykoebing M in Denmark - which obviously the one in the north of Jutland. That is what the M means. In other words almost straight north when you come from Hamburg. And the idiot in the ticket office of one of the major train stations in Hamburg (where I have never ever gotten any usefull information) insisted arrogantly on booking me via Copenhagen, meaning, goint north-east, crossing over by ferry, to the Islands, going to Copenhagen, catching a differnt train there going west, getting off for another ferry-boat ride to Funen, proceeding west back to Jutland, then proceeding north by the train that would probably be coming directly from Hamburg ...

    I mean, is it too much to ask that people pick up a map and just switch on at least a minimum of brain power ... ?

    An idiot in the same ticket office once tried to give me a ticket to Straßburg in esatern Germany although I explicitly said Strasbourg (French pronunciation - totally different). I mean Strasbourg is not just some small town ...
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    German (Germany)
    It is in modern Spanish. But that may of course be hyper-correct, like Parisians who pronounce the x in Bruxelles or Chamonix as /ks/.


    Senior Member
    English (USA Northeast)
    What is the correct pronunciation of Tucson. Is it "two son", is not it? Why?
    funnyhat said:
    If you mean like the word "son" (homonym to "sun"), no. It's like "Two sahn"

    I'd say "two sawn" with the vowel of "sauna".
    Wikipedia recommends this pronunciation: (/ˈtuːsɒn/ or occasionally locally /tuːˈsɒn/)

    From wikipedia on the origin
    The Spanish name of the city, Tucsón [tukˈson], derived from the O'Odham Cuk Ṣon [tʃʊk ʂɔːn], meaning "(at the) base of the black [hill]", a reference to a basalt-covered hill now known as "A" Mountain. Tucson is sometimes referred to as "The Old Pueblo".
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    rusita preciosa

    Modus forendi
    Russian (Moscow)
    This morning driving to work I was listening to the local radio talk show, and the host was reading a story of a person in Spain who was gored by a bull while filming the running with bulls. He stumbled on the sentence 'the man was taken to a Toledo hospital". His side comment on that was (somewhat surprised) was "Huh, there is Toledo, Spain??". :D I guess he is more familiar with Toledo, Ohio.
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