Annoque RR Caroli scdi &c xxj°

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Gundagai

Member
Australian English
All I have is a transcription of the original Latin "4° Maij 1669 Annoque RR Caroli scdi &c xxj°". It appears in a list of entries made in successive years.

Obviously the date is 4th May 1669.
I understand that "Annoque" means "in the year of".
"Caroli" is Charles (the second).

Regarding "xxj°", I'm guessing that "j°" is possibly a "thorn" and represents "th". An entry made 7 years earlier was transcribed "xiiij". Therefore "xxj°" means 20th.

This seems like an interesting commentary on Oliver Cromwell's republic. Charles II ascended the throne in 1660, which was only 9 years earlier. But his father had lost his head in 1649, 20 years earlier. So this list is pretending that the republic never happened, and that Charles II had been the rightful king all along.

Questions:
1. What does RR stand for?
2. Is "scdi" a common abbreviation? For what? And what did it mean back then? (These days Latin SCDI means AIDS)

Thanks :)

It has occurred to me that RR might stand for "regni Regis" or some such thing.
 
  • Gundagai

    Member
    Australian English
    Aha! Is "scdi" an abbreviation of "secundi"?, as in Charles the Second??

    If so then I've answered my own question :) (had puzzled over this several times - it was no quick and easy path)
     

    exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    He is counting his regnal years from the death of his father in Jan 1649, ignoring the unfortunate events of 1649-1660, so May 1669 is in the 21st year of his reign.

    xxj° = vicesimo primo, in the ablative (hence the little -o at the end), agreeing with Anno. In manuscript Latin, "long i" is used at the end of numbers for the final i.

    RR: he was doubly a king, of two then very different countries, England and Scotland. The Union of the two didn't happen till 1707.

    The &c indicated that his other titles (Lord of Ireland, titular King of France for example) are acknowledged but not written out.
     
    Last edited:

    Gundagai

    Member
    Australian English
    Thanks for that :)

    So I'm translating it as "the 20th year of the reign of King Charles the Second etc."
     

    Gundagai

    Member
    Australian English
    My bad.

    A previous entry says "6° octobr 1663 Annoque RR Car scdi etc xv°", so if 1663 is the 15th year, then 1669 is the 21st, which is consistent with that 'j' being the final 'i', as you said.

    All sorted :)
     

    Gundagai

    Member
    Australian English
    Firstly, the original recordists said the 15th year was 1663, so it is them you have the disagreement with.

    Charles' first regnal year ended 30 January 1650, therefore his 11th regnal year ended 30 January 1660, and his 15th regnal year ended on 30 January 1664.

    So the original recordists were correct.
     

    exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    Let's count []:
    Year​
    1​
    'began on jan 30​
    1649​
    Year​
    2​
    'began on jan 30​
    1650​
    Year​
    3​
    'began on jan 30​
    1651​
    Year​
    4​
    'began on jan 30​
    1652​
    Year​
    5​
    'began on jan 30​
    1653​
    Year​
    6​
    'began on jan 30​
    1654​
    Year​
    7​
    'began on jan 30​
    1655​
    Year​
    8​
    'began on jan 30​
    1656​
    Year​
    9​
    'began on jan 30​
    1657​
    Year​
    10​
    'began on jan 30​
    1658​
    Year​
    11​
    'began on jan 30​
    1659​
    Year​
    12​
    'began on jan 30​
    1660​
    Year​
    13​
    'began on jan 30​
    1661​
    Year​
    14​
    'began on jan 30​
    1662​
    Year​
    15​
    'began on jan 30​
    1663​
    Year​
    16​
    'began on jan 30​
    1664​
    Year​
    17​
    'began on jan 30​
    1665​
    Year​
    18​
    'began on jan 30​
    1666​
    Year​
    19​
    'began on jan 30​
    1667​
    Year​
    20​
    'began on jan 30​
    1668​
    Year​
    21​
    'began on jan 30​
    1669​

    < Edited to remove drift. Cagey, moderator >

     
    Last edited by a moderator:

    exgerman

    Senior Member
    NYC
    English but my first language was German
    I see that I made an error: Jan 30 should be Jan 31 in the table.

    You will need to remember that any Julian dates you encounter will be Old-Style, where the year number changes on Mar 25, not Jan 1. So, for dates between Jan 1 and Mar 24, the year number in the document will be one less than the number you expect.

    Also, Old-Style month and day are 10 days ahead of Gregorian dates in the seventeenth century, This is important if you are comparing British documents to contemporary Continental ones.
     
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