ajánld

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123xyz

Senior Member
Macedonian
Hello everyone,

I am curious as to the pronunciation of the word "ajánld", which evidently contains a rather challenging consonant cluster, namely "nld", which doesn't appear to be much in accordance with Hungarian phonological restrictions at all (presumably, this is the only word which contains a sequence of a nasal, liquid, and plosive in the same syllable). So, I was wondering whether some vowels are inserted epenthetically to make this consonant cluster more feasible, or if perhaps one of the consonants is elided, most likely "l", at least colloquially. If not, i.e. if it's pronounced exactly as it's written, is it perceived as somewhat difficult or bothersome by the average native speaker? After all, Hungarian is obviously not big on consonant clusters, hence we have "grabulje" vs. "gEreblye" and "brat" vs. "bArát", among many others.

Thank you in advance
 
  • tomtombp

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    I think we simply don't say the "l" but still insert something because the end result sounds differently than "ajánd". I may have never used this word in this form. You're right. Consonant clusters are not common in Hungarian. This is a very special one and just occurs in informal addressing (tegező) imperative of "ajánl" which I think we use very rarely. If we want someone to recommend something or someone else we usually ask for a favor rather than commanding and we use "tudnád ajánlani?" instead. "Could you please recommend it?" "Could you recommend my new book to your friends please." "Tudnád ajánlani az új könyvemet az ismerőseidnek?". "Ajánld az új könyvemet az ismerőseidnek" sounds impolite, too direct, demanding, even if "please" is added. There are other meanings of ajánl (offer for example) but the same applies there too.
    This is just my opinion. Let's hear others.
     

    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    It seems to me that it is rather the "n" that is "swallowed" (not totally, though) to arrive at something like: "ajál(l)d"*.

    You can see that already in the indicative, in spoken, everyday Hungarian (= pronounced but never written like this!): ajállom/ajállod/ajállja/ajálljuk/ajálljátok/ajállják.
    The imperative does not make this form much more difficult to pronounce: ajálljam/ajálljad or ajálld/ajállja/ajálljuk/ajálljátok/ajállják. (Still in the spoken form!)

    It is difficult to pronounce and it's longer equivalent - ajánljad - is not much easier. The "n" is still partially "swallowed" even in this form.

    *For me it is a double "l" but in this imperative form, it could be pronounced with just one "l".
     
    Last edited:

    AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    >I think we simply don't say the "l"

    I'm quite surprised you hear it that way. I think it's exactly the "n" that disappears, by assimilating into the "l" sound.
    I say "ajáld" and "ajállat".
     

    AndrasBP

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    >You can see that already in the indicative, in spoken, everyday Hungarian (= pronounced but never written like this!): ajállom/ajállod/ajállja/ajálljuk/ajálljátok/ajállják.

    I think the actual pronunciation of the last four forms is "ajájja/ajájjuk/ajájjátok/ajájják", because the "l" assimilates into the "j" sound.
     

    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    Yes, you are right, András, thanks for the suggestion.:)

    I suppose I didn't think of it partly because it is difficult to concentrate only on the pronounced form.

    But I think you can keep some of the "l", too... So, in pronunciation, there is e.g. "ajájja" but, in my opinion, also "ajál(l)jja" (I can't help doubling the "l" because even if it is "swallowed", you can "insist" on that hardly audible "l"...:eek:)
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    I agree with tomtombp in the sense that one rarely uses the imperative from ajánlani. However, when trying to pronounce it, for me the result is rather "ajáld" than "ajánd" ...
     

    tomtombp

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    Yes you are right all of you :) It's much more ajáld than ajánd. But with the l pronounced a bit n-ish :). It starts as an l but turns a little bit into an n at the end. As if the two letters/sounds were changing places: ajálnd. Obviously it's much easier to pronounce it that way because it flows better.
    Now repeating it to myself I'm sure I'm saying ajálnd. But honestly I'm not sure I've ever had to say this word.
     

    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    Tom, I was also thinking about the inversion of the "l" and the "n" so it is possible that it is another viable pronounciation.

    This concentration of consonants is surely difficult enough for us so it may well allow some variants.:)

    @ francis: I don't think it's all that rare... after all it is a "normal" verb... (We just met it less in the previous era?)
     

    123xyz

    Senior Member
    Macedonian
    Thank you for the very thorough replies - so the cluster is modified, just as I expected. By the way, the word may be rare, but it's not as though I came up with it myself - I saw on it on a Hungarian website, which suggested that I recommend the article I'd read to my Facebook friends, or something such :)
     

    francisgranada

    Senior Member
    Hungarian
    ... @ francis: I don't think it's all that rare... after all it is a "normal" verb... (We just met it less in the previous era?)
    Not the verb itself, only the imperative. But it's rather my impression than a "real" opinion ...

    For example "Anjánlom Péternek, hogy vegyen magának egy új kalapot": I think in imperative I'd prefer "Javasold Péternek, hogy vegyen magának egy új kalapot" (instead of "Ajánld Péternek ...").
     

    Zsanna

    ModErrata
    Hungarian - Hungary
    Yes, I agree. It (= javasol) fits even the verb recommend that 123xyz mentions, and it is better both in the context and in the imperative (as opposed to ajánl).
    That just reinforces my idea that the verb is used more often nowadays but probably also because of some lazy translation at the beginning.
     
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