אותו דבר/אותו הדבר

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airelibre

Senior Member
English - London
According to the Academy, both ota makom and ota hamakom are acceptable. http://hebrew-academy.huji.ac.il/hahlatot/GrammarDecisions/terminologyOrdinance/Pages/Ch4D009.aspx I'm just wondering how often oto/a/m/n haX is used, since I have only seen it once compared to oto/a/m/n X which I have seen many times. I'm also wondering what you make of the fact that the page mentions 'same X' can be definite or indefinite. I can't think of a time when', 'same X' is indefinite, if something is the same as something else then it must be a specific thing, so oto haX seems more logical, even if less common.​
 
  • Tararam

    Senior Member
    Hebrew
    They are equally used, interchangeable.
    The page mentions it can be said using a definite article or without it as a rule. It doesn't say there's a case of "same X" that's definite, and a case of "same X" that's not definite.

    "same X" = "oto X" / "oto ha X"
     

    Drink

    Senior Member
    English - New England, Russian - Moscow
    אותו is referring to the word following it (i.e. in "אותו דבר", it is referring to "דבר"). Therefore logically it can only be in the 3rd person.
     

    Ali Smith

    Senior Member
    Urdu - Pakistan
    Someone was talking about a Muslim and referred to him as an Arab. When someone pointed out to her that the person she was talking about was Muslim but not Arab, she said either:

    זה אותו הדבר.
    or
    זה אותו דבר.

    I'm not sure because Israelis speak very fast. Anyway, would either have been acceptable in this context?
     
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