As a matter of fact, in German the first O is short and the second is long in the name Otto, therefore I find that the transliteration is correct.Otto is Όθων in Greek
As far as I know, in Classical times eta(ita) was an open vowel (I'm sure you know the example of the sheep: beee written beta(vita)+eta(ita), whereas in Byzantine and Mod. Greek the sound became more and more close and today ee=i (the sheep would utter viii instead of beee).I don't know how old and recent are the times you suggest.
Τhis can be an explanation.I'm sure that the O in the Kon- syllable was perceived as long in Latin, hence the omega.
It also resembles Latin nouns and names with the ending -o in the nominative (e.g. sermo, gen.sermonis = talk). And Otto was also declined as Otto,Ottonis,Ottoni,Ottonem (nom,gen,dat,acc). In Italian it's Ottone (from Lat.accusative, where -m was lost).Όθων resembles Greek names with the ending -ων in nominative, cf. Τίμων-Τίμωνος,
Thanks for pointing this out.It also resembles Latin nouns and names with the ending -o in the nominative (e.g. sermo, gen.sermonis = talk). And Otto was also declined as Otto,Ottonis,Ottoni,Ottonem (nom,gen,dat,acc). In Italian it's Ottone (from Lat.accusative, where -m was lost).
Likewise Βύρων (Byron) and Ναπολέων (Napoleon), which, like Όθων, are inflected and used as Christian names in Greece.About the ω in Όθων:
Όθων resembles Greek names with the ending -ων in nominative, cf. Τίμων-Τίμωνος, Μέμνων-Μέμνωνος. Hence Όθων-Όθωνος-Όθωνα. This is my opinion.
Another factor is the open/closed pronunciation of the letters O and E. In different periods, omega and eta(ita) were used to indicate open (in very old times) and close (in more recent times) vowels, respectively.
I am afraid there is here a misunderstanding. The “long/short” vowels is one thing and the “close (not closed)/open” vowels is another. In terms of length, that is in terms of quantity (having to do with the duration of the sound perceived), Classical Greek eta (H) was a long vowel, that is it was pronounced as a double E, viz EE, whereas in terms of closeness, that is in terms of quality (having to do with how close is the tongue in regard with the roof of the mouth and the point of articulation of the vowel) it was a mid vowel, viz neither open nor close (according to the IPA vowels diagram which, of course, allows for differentiations depending on the vowel system of any particular language). Now, of course, in Modern Greek there are no long and short vowels (this distinction having disappeared since the 2nd century B.C.), but the vowels, depending on the point of their articulation within the oral cavity, are classified in open (/α/=α), intermediate (/e/=ε,αι and /o/=ο,ω) and close (/i/=ι,η,υ,ει,οι,υι and /u/=ου). So, I think there's no doubt that “longness” of vowels is one thing and “closeness” of vowels is another.As far as I know, in Classical times eta(ita) was an open vowel ...
The same would be the case with omega - though I have no examples at hand - although today I don't think omega and omicron correspond to close/open sounds…
Hi, Perseas. I can’t see any reason for the proper name "Όθων" to have come into Greek through Latin. It could and I believe it did come directly from the German. Given that in the King’s name there was a second o in an open (not vowel, but) syllable, a possibility for the Greek rendition would be a 2nd declension ending in -os, giving a rather “ridiculous” name “Όθος”. The learned society of the newly established Greek State in 1832 (and especially the learned society of the Greek capital of the time, members of which would form part of his court) had no better choice but to render the German name Otto as "Όθων", giving to the young King’s name the more “glamorous” 3rd declension ending -ων (-ωνος), as Πλάτ-ων (-ωνος) or the already transliterated “Byron” as Βύρ-ων (-ωνος).So possibly, the form "Όθων"/ος came to Greek through Latin (mainly as to the letter n: Ottonis).
HelloI am afraid there is here a misunderstanding. The “long/short” vowels is one thing and the “close (not closed)/open” vowels is another.
As far as I know, in Classical times eta(ita) was an open vowel., whereas in Byzantine and Mod. Greek the sound became more and more close and today ee=i
Of course, the “eta” didn’t become in Byzantine and Mod. Greek more and more close and today ee=i nor in “recent” times has become “i”, but “eta” has been pronounced as “i” for 2.000 years now, that is well before the Byzantine period.there is a reason why eta(long e) in ''recent'' times has become ''i'' in pronunciation
The example with the sheep is an extant fragment of Dionysalexandros, a play of Cratinus, the important Athenian comic poet of the Old Comedy. The fragment "ὁ δ' ἠλίθιος ὥσπερ πρόβατον βῆ βῆ λέγων βαδίζει.", following a controversy between Erasmian and Non-Erasmian linguists over the correct sound (=pronunciation) of Classical Greek letters, and specifically here of the ancient β and η, was put forward to show and successfully prove that β was pronounced as b and η was pronounced as ee. When Cratinus was writing this, he was simply trying to as best as possible render what he and his contemporaries were hearing, that is bē or bee, which undoubtedly is what we also hear today, as sheep haven’t mutated over the years and still produce the same bleat. So, it seems to be an agreement so far. But the silly man, imitating the sheep’s sound while going around, was producing a HUMAN sound ee and that sound, according to the IPA chart of vowels, is undoubtedly classified as mid-vowel. And all sounds produced by animals, produced either by the mouth (and the tongue) or by the throat or the nose or a combination of them, when reproduced either mechanically or by humans imitating them, either successfully or less successfully, can be classified within the IPA chart.(I'm sure you know the example of the sheep: beee written beta(vita)+eta(ita)
Consequently, yes, the sheep’s bleat does contain a mid-vowel, to be precise an open-mid vowel e, but in no case an open vowel, because “e”, whatever its tone, is neither an open vowel, as “a” is, nor a close vowel, as “i” is. Of course, this applies only if we acknowledge and respect the extremely scientific work of the IPA. Otherwise, not.The sheep call 'bee' does not contain a 'mid' vowel: rather an open vowel.
When I wrote open/close vowel, I referred to sounds like in French è/é. Sorry for my inaccurate definition (OK: open-mid/close-mid).“e”, whatever its tone, is neither an open vowel, as “a” is, nor a close vowel, as “i” is.
Hi. After some time of absence, I ‘m glad to be back to this interesting forum. The above statement does credit to you, bearded, and I do feel quite the same. As I wrote in another thread about a month ago, “I believe this is a forum where everybody, whenever possible and regardless of different views and opinions at times, contributes with good intentions and politeness to the common knowledge”.I don't intend to be polemic